This is an ongoing discussion in our home (with a friend) right now. Here's some of the many verses we've been looking at:
1 John 5:11-15
Ephesians 2:8
1 John 2:1-6
A lot of these verses have "if we do" that implies that even as Christians we can do otherwise. If we can choose to not follow God's Words, even as Christians, then are we truly saved. If we are to overcome temptation (because God prepares a way out for us, 1 Cor. 10:13) and we don't, are we really saved? What about the "mistakes", the "screw-ups"?
If sin separates us from God, then our salvation would be lost. So, when I sin, I am separated from God? Even as a Christian?
I don't know. When my son disobeys me, I don't remove that relationship. The relationship is strained, yes! But there is repentance and a return to obedience. He doesn't have to become my son all over again. Why would God require that? That sounds like a wishy-washy God to me - give the gift, take the gift, give the gift, take the gift. Not a God I would want to follow.
So the verses that talk about those who sin being apart from God have to be seen in a light that match up with the verses that talk about the eternal life.
How can someone read the book of Romans and not be sure of their salvation?
Once I accept God's gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, God no longer sees my sin. Am I right? Am I a sinner? I don't know, but I do know that I do continue to sin as a Child of God. However, the Holy Spirit in my life does not allow me to continue in that sin and I come to my Father God and ask for His forgiveness.
I do not believe, and I have not been shown Scripture that proves it, that I am going to hell if there is un-repented sin in my life. For example, if I die after being angry at my family, having not repented of that anger, I am still going to heaven. My un-repented anger will not cause God to send me to hell, because Jesus died for ALL my sin, past, present and future (Eph. 2:8). My repentance is not a reinstating of my salvation but rather a reconciliation of an injured relationship.
Here's another way to look at it: Christians are the Bride of Christ. When I hurt (sin against) my husband, that does not end our relationship; we are still married; I am still his bride. Our relationship is damaged, but not ended. I do not have to remarry him every time I hurt him (and our relationship). I believe it is the same in our relationship with God. He doesn't take that "brideship" away from us. Yes, our sin hurts him and damages the relationship, but it is not ended altogether.
I'm sure there will be more on this to come.
Striving to learn and live God's purposes,
7 comments:
Well written. I dont' think that we lose our salvation but I can't really back it up scripturally.
I don't believe in once saved always saved...there definitely needs to be a relationship. which is what I think you're talking about. In II Corinthians 6:15-7:1 it says very clearly that it is a process and not a one time event. We need to go to God on a daily basis and repent and become doers of the Word and not hearers only. Repenting meaning to turn away from the evil act/thought. Taking captive every thought.
Romans 6:6 KJV makes it very clear that this is an ongoing process because you will notice that it is in the present tense "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that hereafter we should not serve sin." It does not say that our old man WAS crucified once and for all with Him...it says that it IS (continually). As long as we are actively seeking God and are honest in our hearts regarding our relationship with Him then He see's that and responds accordingly. Having said that, I think that today's churches have been preaching "grace" a little too much and now we have tons of churches out there that fit right in with the world and are no longer "set apart", they have totally lost their savor and are no longer a light in the darkness. They haven't kept the commandments that Jesus told us to keep if we love Him! I know very few churches that keep the Sabbath. This is a "forever" command of Yahweh! Yet somehow the Catholic church seems to think that they are above God and have the authority to move the day of worship to sun-day...hmmm. Just a side note here, but it's no wonder that people in the churches today are just as diseased as the people in the world. The church has not kept herself "set apart" and is just as involved in the pagan religions as the Hebrews were back in the days of old! There are so many blessings of health etc that we can claim, but only IF we keep His commands. I speak this to myself as well!
Christians might have eternal life without obeying all of His commands, but I think many will be surprised when He says, "I know you not..."
I don't have any answers...just thoughts and more questions...lol
This is from my dad; his blog is http://grampapeter.blogspot.com/.
I just read Romans 8 this morning and it is a favorite chapter of mine, every time I read it, I can't help but feel secure in my relationship with Christ. LaDonna, you did a fantastic job explaining it and understanding it. I loved the way you spelled it out. Good job. I would love to use it as Sermon material, and I likely even have used comparisons like that before. It was great to hear it fresh from you again this morning.
He promised He would never leave us nor forsake us.
You were so right in that you cannot read Romans without feeling a sense of security, in the Lord, and knowing He has done it all, our name is written in the Lambs Book of Life with Permanent marker.At times it may fade but it brightens up every time we bring our sins to the foot of the cross.
If our Salvation was not real, we can then loose it, because we really never had it. As we commit our lives to Him every morning we are affirming and growing our relationship with Him.
I have studied God's Word for years and as soon as I realized that everything in the Holy Bible is "God Breathed" and that it was the "TRUTH" with "NO COUNTERDICTIONS" then I knew that my salvation was secured.
I want you to read 1 John 5:11-13: "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life”
As you can see, it says "YOU MAY KNOW" that you have eternal life, not "YOU MIGHT HAVE" eternal life. God is not an author of confusion.
What happens when we sin is that it draws us away from the fellowship with the Lord and that we will stay out of fellowship with God until we repent of our sins. What happens is that the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) which indwells each “born again” Christian will convict us that we have sinned and that makes us feel guilty until we go to the Lord in prayer and repent. God does not keep erasing our name out of the Book of Life every time we make a mistake.
I hope this was helpful to you and that you know now that when you die you will be in the arms of our Lord Jesus in the place (heaven) where He promise to prepare for you. God bless, Lloyd
This is from my mom; her blog is http://grandmajohnny.blogspot.com/
You need to spend some time (I wish you could take a day - 24 hrs.) with your Bible and read it and ask God to bring to you the answers He has for you.
At most you need to take time and be still so that you can hear GOD speaking to you.
Jesus declared it thus in John 5:24-25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 25"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”
This was in Mike's email today. Christ only died once, we only need to accept Him once, then we need to live our lives to show that we have accepted Him. "eternal salvation" - there is eternal life and you get that from the verses above and John 3:16. "That relationship will ensure my salvation."????? that statement's not clear. You seem to be saying that your relationship saves you, when in fact it is your belief in the One true God, and Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and what Jesus came to earth to do - to save us. Learn to stand on the truths (facts) from the Bible and not on the lies Satan can throw at you.
Fact: Jesus came to die for sinners,
Receive Him as your Lord and Savior,
He forgives sin.
He loves you and doesn't want you to be confused.
You can also go to trusted people for their stand - Billy Graham, etc.
I remember being confused on that too, but the more important question is Are you living like you have been saved and can others see it and want what you have?
Mom
1Jo 1:9 -
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
It sounds like you know the truth, but are just thinking too much about other things happening.
Blessings,
Cathy
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